Curse

coolsti · Oct 11, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

I am GW for several hours every day, usually with 2 or 3 others who, like me, want to play the PVE part of this game as it was meant to be, without running. But it is becoming frustratingly difficult to get a PUG group together which doesn't have at least one member that decides to run rather than play and fight.

Advertising for non-runners doesn't always help, consider these recent experiences:

1) We were 4 who wanted to get our new armour infused in the Mines mission, but we didn't want to run it. We advertised specifically for people who would not run. We found 4 more for our party and off we went. What happened? Right from the start one of the pick up elementalists started to run. When we messaged him to stop, that this wasn't the plan, his response was "I don't care, I am running, see you at the cut scene". Well, the 4 of us mapped back to the mission city to start again. I hope the remaining 4 weren't able to complete the infusion on their own.

2) Round 2. This time we really made it clear we were not going to run. We got as far as the entrance to the cave with the seerer, and while we were battling the azure shadow, boom, the cut scene starts. Someone ran. We were so angry, the 4 of us sat our characters down and refused to help get the spectral essence. This led to a very interesting confrontation which I don't care to describe here.

3) The day before, we wanted to go from Agury to Thirsty River without running. We advertised for this, got the group together, and off we went. And right in the middle of the first big battle, off runs our pick up warrior. We messaged him to stop or leave the group, and his reply was "I am in a hurry, I don't care about you, you don't know me, so I am running". Well, fortunately for us in this case he ran into a group he couldn't handle, and died. He had to map back to the city because we weren't going to help him. So we were able to continue our journey without him.

I don't mind runners anymore. As far as I am concerned, people can play the game as they like, as long as it doesn't interfere in how I want to play. What irks me is the lack of respect these people show for other players who don't want to run. One runner in the group spoils the entire journey.

One and Two · Oct 11, 2005, 07:25 AM // 07:25

People are truly [edit] in this game. If you advertise a group a certain way and they dont care, they should be banned and punched in their face. Congrats, you have my support.

coolsti · Oct 11, 2005, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Actually, I am now playing ranger, and I think I will start to take stormchaser with me as skill for now on. If the situations I described above happen again, I think I will use stormchaser to let me aggro as many enemies as possible, and bring them over to our "runner", heh heh.

Slimcea · Oct 11, 2005, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quite frankly, it seems to me that you were the one negatively affecting people in the first 2 cases.

In the first case, only one Ele ran. 7 other players remained. Don't tell me that without that single Ele, you couldn't fight your way to the Seer and that at the first sight of any enemy, the entire PUG would fall apart. Giving up and leaving simply is immature and brattish behaviour, and the only people I feel pity for in this case are the other 3 who stayed behind.

In the second case, again totally immature behaviour. The difference is only one or two screens, its not as if someone ran half the mission. Throwing a tantrum simply because someone made a slight slip (and its not as if you can't go back to fight them) at that point (when half the job is done) doesn't reflect too well on you.

Basically, as far as I can see, you too are the same as a runner - trying to impose your playing style upon others. If you're not mature enough to accept that people have different opinions or simply too rigid to adapt to situations, then why play an MMORPG? Or why not simply stick to henchies?

coolsti · Oct 11, 2005, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slimcea

In the first case, only one Ele ran. 7 other players remained. Don't tell me that without that single Ele, you couldn't fight your way to the Seer and that at the first sight of any enemy, the entire PUG would fall apart. Giving up and leaving simply is immature and brattish behaviour, and the only people I feel pity for in this case are the other 3 who stayed behind.

Apparently you haven't played this game very much, have you? You cannot continue to play a quest or mission or journey out when one in the party decides to run. As soon as that runner reaches the next portal, cut scene or town, everyone gets transported there as a party. Hence, the one runner ruins the quest, mission or journey for all the rest of the team. So no, I am not being overly negative here at all. This runner has ruined it for everyone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slimcea

In the second case, again totally immature behaviour. The difference is only one or two screens, its not as if someone ran half the mission. Throwing a tantrum simply because someone made a slight slip (and its not as if you can't go back to fight them) at that point (when half the job is done) doesn't reflect too well on you.

Huh? Running is running. The person does not want to play as the rest of the team wants to play, then the person should not have joined the team. Why should we go back to fight a group that we got "cut-scene" teleported past? Why should we tolerate to be "runner-teleported" ahead when we don't want to be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slimcea

Basically, as far as I can see, you too are the same as a runner - trying to impose your playing style upon others. If you're not mature enough to accept that people have different opinions or simply too rigid to adapt to situations, then why play an MMORPG? Or why not simply stick to henchies?

Huh? Impose my playing style on others? Read my post again more carefully. In all the instances I mentioned, we specifically advertised in forming the group that we did not want to run, and would not tolerate runners. If anyone here is forcing a playing style on others, it is the runner.

Slimcea, if you really mean what you wrote here, then you are very typical of a player that we very much hope to avoid.

Slimcea · Oct 11, 2005, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

Apparently you haven't played this game very much, have you? You cannot continue to play a quest or mission or journey out when one in the party decides to run. As soon as that runner reaches the next portal, cut scene or town, everyone gets transported there as a party. Hence, the one runner ruins the quest, mission or journey for all the rest of the team. So no, I am not being overly negative here at all. This runner has ruined it for everyone else.

The runner was an Ele. If this is Iron Mines we're talking about, generally, most Eles can't make it very far running. I'll concede that here, the Ele was being an ass, given the nature of the group you were advertising for. Still, only one player ran, you could have stayed to salvage the situation. Instead you simply gave up and left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

Huh? Running is running. The person does not want to play as the rest of the team wants to play, then the person should not have joined the team. Why should we go back to fight a group that we got "cut-scene" teleported past? Why should we tolerate to be "runner-teleported" ahead when we don't want to be?

Because in case 2, you can't really consider that running if at all. The distance from the cave entrance to the Seer is probably one screen in depth. Sure, you guys were fighting, but how do you know if someone did not accidentally trigger the cutscene? In either case, you've fought halfway across the map without anyone running, and are very near completion of the mission. To simply give up and then sit down and ignore the rest of the group due to a small slip-up is immature behaviour no matter what way you look at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

Huh? Impose my playing style on others? Read my post again more carefully. In all the instances I mentioned, we specifically advertised in forming the group that we did not want to run, and would not tolerate runners. If anyone here is forcing a playing style on others, it is the runner.

Slimcea, if you really mean what you wrote here, then you are very typical of a player that we very much hope to avoid.

In both cases, all that I've seen is what I said - you advertise for a single playing style, and cannot tolerate any changes or a single slight deviation from it. If it does, you feel that you've been totally wronged and have the right to take it out on the rest of the team (in this case, the other 3 / 4 players that didn't leave/sit and throw tantrums). Playing with humans requires flexibilty and the ability to reach some sort of compromise - that's what teamwork is. Like I said, if you're not willing to do so, use henchies, they'll blindly follow your every command.

To be honest, I'd want to avoid you too. At least unlike you, even in negative situations, I'd stay behind to try against the odds, and when faced with people who don't know better or don't meet my criteria, I'm flexible enough to bend my rules a little to help them for the sake of the team.

Sekkira · Oct 11, 2005, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slimcea

In both cases, all that I've seen is what I said - you advertise for a single playing style, and cannot tolerate any changes or a single slight deviation from it.

Which is supposably made clear in the advertisement for members of the party. You don't have to join if you disagree with it, it's why he's advertising. I know personally I would love to join his teams as I have had the same experiences. I want to play the game the way I want to play. I wont enforce that on anyone else and I expect it to go both ways.

You want to run, join a running group. You want to fight and explore the place, join a group that does that. If people follow that, we'll all be happy.

Charcoal Ann · Oct 11, 2005, 10:58 AM // 10:58

I quite agree that if you advertise for a non-running group then only those who don't want to run need apply.
HOWEVER. your way of dealing with it was much less than admirable. so one person ran? i've done that mission with a PUG of 7 (fighting the mursaat way with two people uninfused). the guy was an ele and would DEFINITLY die without a meat shield.
the second one totaly destroyed any simpathy for you position that i previously had. that was pathetic, two year old stuff. you didn't do EXACTLY what i wanted WHEN i wanted, so i'm not doing anything to help you.
i mean for gods sake. a caster is being chased around by Azures and accidentally runs into the cutscene. you and your friends actions were absolutely pathetic and petty.

when i advertise for something like that i will whisper all applicants BEFORE they can join. you were obviously accepting blind invites assuming that they were replying to your adverts in 'all'. in the description of round two you suggest that you didn't make it clear to the team of round one that you were not running. what do you expect? its the most common way of doing that mission.

the third instance. i have had problems with runners in my groups around the desert. just stick with it. kill what you can in the time you have. after all you can always head back out and do it again if you feel you haven't drawn sufficiant blood.

i would not like to be in your team. i've met a few like you:
Monk take healing hands and mark of protection!!!
umm they are both elites...
/kicked
whisper: umm what?
you arn't a team player we need team players in our team.

well what do i care? they will be stuck there for a while.

Thought: Flexability is key to success. Everyone has the right to an equal say. Listen to them. Learn from them.

Nightwish · Oct 11, 2005, 11:09 AM // 11:09

coolsti, while you done the right thing by advertising specifically for non-runners, what you did in the second case isnt really justifiable.

1. Who knows the runner was actually trying to escape some mobs after him

2. Maybe the runner did not know where the cut scene starts since it was his/her 1st mission

and most importantly!

3. Dont you even care about the other 3 non-runners you recruited? They fight all the way and you forfeit their efforts just because ONE ran ahead?

Sorry but the way you handled situation 2 is simply wrong...

Yea, those that ran on purpose were jerks and should be punished but I just feel sorry for those that abide by your rules but still failed to finish the mission because the four of you decided to quit halfway =/

aron searle · Oct 11, 2005, 11:19 AM // 11:19

1st point

dosnt matter if the ele would have made it, you wanted to fight and you made that clear. Why all the flames saying the coolsti should have stuck with it. Why should somebody who has formed a group with a clear advertised purpose change there planes for som pug.

2nd point. Well not sure, it could have been a mistake so over reaction?

3rd point

So let me get this striaght

Coolsti asked for NON runners

Somebody runs

they ask them to stop and they reply (and i believe this reply as i have had ones like this myself).

Quote:

"I am in a hurry, I don't care about you, you don't know me, so I am running"

and coolsti should stick with them.

Why?

Quote:

Thought: Flexability is key to success. Everyone has the right to an equal say. Listen to them. Learn from them.

Yes everyone has an equal say, but the runners just ran and ignored what anyone else wanted.

coolsti · Oct 11, 2005, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightwish

coolsti, while you done the right thing by advertising specifically for non-runners, what you did in the second case isnt really justifiable.

Yes, I will admit that we were a bit touchy at this point (after so many experiences with runners) and perhaps we should not have reacted as we did in the 2nd case. It turned out after our sit down strike that we did finish the infusion and the mission, but without the runner, who didn't need the mission anyway.

I guess here what got us so angry was not the fact that such a little distance on the map was covered by the runner to the cut scene. It was more the principle of the situation: it was a battle that we were clearly winning and were going to win, no one was dead, or near dying. And we were having fun! But instead of helping us out to finish it, the runner panicked or whatever, and ran over to the cut scene (or the nearest portal, nearest town, etc.). BTW, I know someone who had a similar experience where the entire party died during the cut scene ;-)

Anyway, I have given up trying to find PUGs for travelling in the desert. My friends and I mostly take henchhies since the general feeling in the towns seems to be that the only way to get to a new town in the desert is to run it.

FalconDance · Oct 11, 2005, 11:39 AM // 11:39

coolsti, I wish I had met you and your friends earlier in my game! We all play (except daughter) here and have now developed the tendency to solo with henchies only since it is very difficult to 1) find a group that can / will work together as a team for PvE, and 2) find a group that wants to fight and not simply run.

As I have said in other posts, I have nothing against runners. In fact, I have enjoyed their services from time to time. HOWEVER, if a player wants to run and they know from the outset that the group does not, then why would they still join? This is selfishness and inconsideration on their behalf.

(Although, there is one instance I can think of that this would be okay---if the group is fighting valiantly but still going down, with agreement and encouragement, a runner can bring them through the next trans into safety to continue.)

coolsti · Oct 11, 2005, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

.... and have now developed the tendency to solo with henchies only since it is very difficult to 1) find a group that can / will work together as a team for PvE, and 2) find a group that wants to fight and not simply run.

Yes, it is getting really difficult to find the type of player that has the patience and interest in doing something without running. But when that happens, this game is fantastic! We have been fortunate to have found a nice group to play with; unfortunately we never have enough on hand for a full party at one time. But when we find a good team, we give it all our best to make the quest/mission/journey as enjoyable as possible for everyone, with good teamwork and good humor. We have had many of our pickup party members say afterwards that we were the best group they have partied with to date! And I think that to a large extent, this is what this online game is all about.

Maybe one problem is that a lot of players don't give certain situations a chance, and anticipate failure before they even try to do something. Like all the people at Thunderkeep screaming for human monks when the henchy monks do a great job. When I did the iron mines mission a few days ago, I put together a team that consisted of 3 rangers, 1 elementalist and 1 necro. A warrior then answered my call and joined, but as soon as he saw there were 3 rangers in the group he left. "Three rangers?" he said and bam he was gone. We filled up the group with a henchy warrior and 2 henchy monks, did the infusion then bonus then mission, and had an absolutely wonderful time doing it. Perhaps a lot of people take to running in a lot of situations because they don't have any idea that any thing else would work?

Numa Pompilius · Oct 11, 2005, 12:27 PM // 12:27

I agree with coolsti. Down with runners. If people don't want to play the game, wth do they.

Makkert · Oct 11, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

You seem very upset. Every now and then I also can get a little disappointed in PUG-land.

Quote:

Take me down to the PUG-land city where the drops are green
and where the players are smart and witty.

~ Makkert, from the CD 'Utopia'

Whenever my mood is started to get low, I will use henchies... Silence and blissfull. More advise I can't give you, you seemed to do things right in the pick up phase...

kind regards,
Makkert

KaPe · Oct 11, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

I had sligthly different expierence. I joined a group that was supposedly doing mission, not running. And what happens? Naturally, they run like crazy. Good thing was, that at some moment they decided to fight, so I could catch up - maybe it was because of ballistae. Someone charged ahead on got killed, than started to spam, calling us noob, idiots, etc...

*Sigh*

I didn't want to res him, but the cutscene did. He died again, near shadows before Eidolon, and told us he has to go - yet he was lieing there until the end of mission. After we got infused, 3 people left, one went afk, and the dead guy was still dead. So, with 4 people, we went to do the mission - and two of them were monks. Needless to say, it took us ages to kill Markis, since neither of us had *skill* interrupts(just maelstrom from me). Luckily, afk'er woke up and joined us - and even then it took like 10 minutes.

Things like that only make me *dislike* runners even more. Not only it takes forever to make a group, but it turns out they don't want to play a game. I could be better of with henchies. As usual.

Sister Rosette · Oct 11, 2005, 01:04 PM // 13:04

I'd agree if the areas you wanted to fight through weren't useless.

Augry to thirsty? No cutscenes, just a lot of b/s mobs.
Not running to infusion? Hope you have a couple hours.

You don't want to get anywhere. You just want to go farm
with a large, unorganized group and maybe get a new location
when your xp bar and your ego are satisfied.

And these 2 comments annoy me:
"get our new armour infused"
And how did you get to the areas with the armor? Both citadel and grotto
are perilous journeys. Especially for the uninfused. I am led to think you got
one of those runners you seem to hate so.
"people can play the game as they like, as long as it doesn't interfere in how I want to play."
How gracious of you. You got stuck with morons online. Fancy that, so has
everyone else. Except the rest of us aren't egomanicial control freaks who
make half the party leave because one person ran.

In short, try farming some maturity. If nothing else, get a thicker skin for
people's online behaviors. They're gonna do what they want, regardless of
what you tell them to.

Charcoal Ann · Oct 11, 2005, 01:13 PM // 13:13

after having noted your location i notice you are likely on the european servers. having spent a bit of time there i have noticed a tendancy for total lack of communication. lack of players.

i imagine that many of the people who want to actually play with PUGs will have long since moved to america.
i can now see your problem. on those later mission there are rarely enough for a full (and balanced) group.
still. advertising for something does not mean you can simply presume that everyone who is applying actually read your advert. try advertising for FoW as a monk. most of your groups will be headed to UW. they just invite all monks they can see. just like others invite all the groups they can see.

if i am forming a group for something like that i will always tell everyone what is happening. make sure they understand. any retribution you dish out thereafter if they do not follow your guidelines is deserved.
try to think about those people who did nothing wrong yet still you dumped. i'm surprised we don't have one of THEM posting about some arsy guild group that dumped them JUST because one chap did something that they didn't like.

i'm sure some day you will want to get something done. i'm sure one day after the 10th retry of TK or HP you may want to get things roling faster. i'm sure that one day there will be someone in your group who IS NOT in a rush. i'm sure that on that day THEY will get annoyed with YOU. i'm sure on that day you will not want them to leave.

KaPe · Oct 11, 2005, 01:16 PM // 13:16

"In short, try farming some maturity."

Look who's talking. If you want to run, fine(even though I don't like it) - but joining a group that *doesn't* want to run... It's like delibaretly trying to piss other people off.

Sister Rosette · Oct 11, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Yeah, and throwing a temper tantrum, leaving the party, and whining
on GWG about it makes it all so much better..

Maybe some people don't feel like cutting a path through a bunch
of worthless (low xp, crap drops) monsters just to get infused.

Why would anyone even join a group that's going to devote hours
to something that should take 20-25 minutes tops?